Today, we are continuing our Explorers Club series today with a very special guest, Dr. Natalie Schmitt. Dr. Schmitt can do it all - really. She’s not only a conservation geneticist, but she’s a marine ecologist and documentary host.
Today, we are continuing our Explorers Club series today with a very special guest, Dr. Natalie Schmitt. Dr. Schmitt can do it all - really. She’s not only a conservation geneticist, but she’s a marine ecologist and documentary host.
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Find episode transcripts here: https://curiosity-daily-4e53644e.simplecast.com/episodes/the-explorers-club-an-interview-with-natalie-schmitt
CALLI: Nate, when you think of DNA, what comes to mind?
NATE: Deoxyribonucleic Acid? Well, it’s the hereditary material present in almost all living things - the very CRADLE of humanity!
CALLI: Well yes, that’s all true but did you know that it’s also a key tool for conservation?
NATE: Hmm, I get the feeling this is going somewhere really interesting… care to elaborate?
CALLI: I’m definitely leading up to some pretty cool science… Explorer Dr. Natalie Schmitt is a real life conservation geneticist and in her line of work, DNA is everything.
NATALIE: We use DNA as a tool to help us learn more about species that are difficult to study so we can take a skin sample or a fecal sample from an animal. And we can learn about their movement. We can learn things about their population. We can determine the abundance of that species just from the DNA that we extract from those samples that animals leave behind. My real passion as a conservation geneticist is actually using genetic tools to help us learn more about species that are difficult to study. So rare and elusive species and particularly rare an elusive species that live in the planet's extremes.
CALLI: And when Dr. Schmitt says extreme - she means extremely cold.
NATALIE: I became quite interested in trying to get down to the Antarctic because my, my great grandfather, uh, Charlie Sandow, he was a huge inspiration for me. So he was part of Sir Douglas Mawson's Antarctic expedition from 1911 to 1914. And I just wanted to follow in his footsteps. So I was lucky enough to score a PhD with the Australian Antarctic Division and got to go down there a few times. And the following humpback whales then went on to study the largest animal that's ever lived, the Antarctic blue.
NATE: If you think that’s impressive, then hold onto your hats because that’s just the tip of the iceberg for Dr. Schmitt. What do you think, Calli, should we get this party started?
CALLI: It’s about that time, Nate.
[SFX: Intro Music/Whoosh]
NATE: Hi! You’re about to get smarter in just a few minutes with Curiosity Daily from Discovery. Time flies when you’re learnin’ super cool stuff. I’m Nate.
CALLI: And I’m Calli. If you’re dropping in for the first time, welcome to Curiosity, where we aim to blow your mind by helping you grow your mind. If you’re a loyal listener, welcome back! We are continuing our Explorers Club series today with a very special guest, Dr. Natalie Schmitt. And when I say Dr. Schmitt can do it all, I really mean she can do it all. She’s not only a conservation geneticist, but she’s a marine ecologist and documentary host. Her passion for biodiversity has led to a long and impactful career in conservation. The only thing that seems to be difficult for her is to succinctly summarize her specialties.
NATALIE: And it's it's very difficult to talk about what I specialize in, because I've had such a eclectic career, I think you could call it.
NATE: An eclectic career to say the very least but one that’s been driven by a deep passion for conservation.
NATALIE: It's a hard time to be a conservation scientist because, I mean, biodiversity is diminishing at such an alarming rate. And that's really our life's work, is to try and and protect it, try and save it and even replenish it. And it's it's really hard when you're trying to when you're at the kind of the whim of governments, of, of, of people, which is why I, I kind of in my career, I was focused on conservation science work. But I found that as my career has continued, I'm realizing the importance of involving everyday people in conservation. So empowering everyday people. Inspiring everyday people to want to protect this planet. Because I really think that is the key to solving biodiversity loss. Science is an important component, but I believe it's not the most important component for people. It's people. It's absolutely people. So, I mean, I started off I started off, as I said, as an animal behaviorist. And then I actually quit science to to get into documentary film and try my hand at presenting because I, I saw the power of media. I mean, exactly what you guys are doing. The power of media is just immense to influence people, to inspire people. And I think that's what we need to do, as, you know, as scientists to try and bring people on board to help us out because we need everyone's help.
CALLI: Spread the word as much as.
NATALIE: Possible. Exactly. I actually started out as an animal behaviorist way back in the day. I used to study marsupials, a little animal called the Quokka. The little smile. Yeah, the little. The happiest animal in the world. Right?
NATE: If you ever need a boost, I highly recommend you Google these little cuties. Quokka is spelled Q-U-O-K-K-A. You won’t be upset that you did.
CALLI: I have an emergency stash of quokka photos saved for rainy days. The Quokka is native to Australia, about the size of a housecat, and are marsupials like kangaroos and koalas. Their size, general adorableness and lack of fear of humans have earned them the nickname the “Happiest Animals on Earth”. Unfortunately they’re also a vulnerable population.
NATE: And if you’re thinking, okay what’s the issue with losing one little happy animal - Dr. Schmitt’s going to tell us why that’s a problem.
NATALIE: Every species has a role, every species. This is so critically important. My passion has switched from whales to the big cats, the apex predators, because they are critically important for the health of an ecosystem. If if if they go extinct, then entire ecosystems can collapse.
[SFX: Whoosh]
CALLI: So Dr. Schmitt mentions going from whales to big cats - but let’s rewind a little. She started out studying quokkas, then was called to Antarctica to study whales, but she left the ice-cold seas to go to the… ice cold mountains.
NATALIE: Yeah. So I. I actually quit, uh, my, my career as a whale scientist to pursue snow leopards because I realized the importance of involving communities in everyday people around conservation efforts. And, you know, I'd, I'd spent a bit of time in Nepal and I'd always had this fascination with snow leopards. I mean, they're such an intriguing species. We know very little about them. And I seem to be very drawn to animals that we know very little about.
CALLI: Because they're shy. That's what I heard, is.
NATALIE: That they're shy. There are so few of them in the wild and they exist in one of the most challenging terrains on Earth, like across the Himalayas.
NATE: The Himalayas of course being the mountain range that separates the Indian subcontinent from Tibetan Plateau. The Himalayas are home to Mount Everest, the tallest mountain on Earth and… snow leopards.
CALLI: That's right.
NATALIE: Yeah. So they're they're very difficult to find. But I, I guess I simply had a curiosity, and so I just started to do my own research. You know, who studies snow leopards? What do we know about snow leopards? How can I get involved? And so I started to read lots of scientific papers and I found a gap in snow leopard research. So one of the issues as a conservation geneticist, when you go out and you collect fecal samples from an animal like snow leopards, if you can imagine, like with the terrain that they live in, you end up walking for like three weeks, four weeks or up in the mountains to try and find these samples. And then the traditional way of identifying those samples, because you don't necessarily know they're from a snow leopard, is to send them to a lab. But the problem is most of those samples end up being from another species. So you need a way to be able to identify those samples on the spot, which is actually what I'm doing now. I'm I'm I'm developing a species detection technology that can be used by everyday people, so you don't need to be a scientist to use it. And I was inspired. I mean, this is a bit of a Segway, but I was inspired by the communities that I was working with in Nepal because they need to be able to identify so animals can come in, predators can come in and take their livestock, kill their livestock, and that is their livelihood. Often the snow leopard gets the blame and often, um, people retaliate or yeah. Which is not good for, good for the snow leopards, obviously. So they need a way to identify what animal killed their livestock from the saliva marker left over on the bite, on the bite mark. So they then have evidence that they can present to government in order to get compensation. So it but there is, you know, many other applications to this type of technology. I mean, kids can use it again. You sort of go back to curiosity. Kids can use it to find out what animals are in their backyard just from the remains that they leave behind. This is something.
CALLI: That you are developing.
NATALIE: Well, not me, per say, but I'm I'm I'm getting a lot of help from McMaster University, from a biomedical lab that had actually developed this. It's kind of like a pregnancy test that they use to detect bacteria in food and water samples. And so I stumbled upon that paper when I was interested in studying snow leopards, and I thought, Wow, imagine if we could adapt this to species detection. And that ties in with my passion around involving everyday people in conservation. So so yes applications to communities and everyday people in involving them. But it also has applications for scientists that study endangered species that are difficult to detect in in the field, such as snow leopards. But it also has huge applications to the illegal wildlife trade and monitoring the illegal wildlife trade. So particularly in developing countries where they can't afford to really send a sample off to a lab. In many countries, it's illegal to send send samples out of the country. So samples, you know, illegal samples just end up going through without being caught. So. This type of technology would empower those people to be able to easily detect illegally traded products. It's just mind boggling just what we can do with DNA.
CALLI: One of the most mind boggling things that scientists are trying to crack now is using DNA to bring back previously extinct species. Many say it’s not totally possible to bring them back exactly how they were, but DNA can create a great proxy. Dr. Schmitt’s come across this in her own career as a TV Presenter on the show, Animal X.
NATALIE: We had an episode on the thylacine and uh.
NATE: Thylacine, also known as the Tasmanian tiger or Tasmanian wolf was a carnivorous marsupial last seen almost 100 years ago.
NATALIE: Yeah. People hoping that they're actually not extinct. But yeah, there are efforts at the moment to cloning. Uh, yeah, cloning. Um, cloning the Tasmanian tiger from, uh, tiger pup samples to try and resurrect them. So this is already happening.
CALLI: So what sort of game changer would that be if we brought it back? So is it extinct now? Critically endangered.
NATALIE: It supposedly went extinct in the 1930s, in 1938, I believe. But there's still reports from local people. They still report to see them. And and, in fact, there was a really reputable sighting in the 1980s from a from a scientist. So we just don't know if they're still out there. I mean, I hope that they're still out there in terms of a game changer. It would bring back one of Australia's only predatory land mammals. I mean, we have the dingo that has been in Australia for the last 10,000, 50,000 years, but this is a marsupial predator. We have the Tasmanian devil, but they're mainly scavengers. But this is this is an apex predator. So it would be incredible.
CALLI: It’s just a reminder that all species great and small are crucial to maintaining the balance of our planet.
NATALIE: I mean, the importance of insects, for example. I mean, we would not survive if insects didn't exist. We as humans tend to think of ourselves as being separate from the rest of of living things. And this is the problem. This is a problem with that arrogance. Right. We we are an animal. We're a mammal. And we depend upon biodiversity for survival. We we simply would not exist. And in fact, most of the planet would not exist without.
CALLI: I feel like a lot of times we see ourselves as outliers, like we don't count. But at the same time, that's 100% true. Like we we require animals to thrive and to live. And at the end of the day, what can we be doing to you know, you said that it comes down to people. What can people be doing to help these situations to try and help prepare?
NATALIE: Well, I think the first thing that people can do is just get out into nature, like just simply by getting out into nature, reconnecting like it's we've really lost that connection. Like I as part of this pandemic, I've. I've spent less time in nature than I ever have. Like, I've been, you know, working from home. And I feel that disconnect. I feel that loss within me. It's kind of like a depletion of the soul. And and I feel that as human beings, we've really lost that connection. And so you're not going to want to protect something that you don't feel a strong connection with. So really, I think that's that's the first thing that people should do if they if they really want to help.
CALLI: Connect with nature. Yeah.
NATALIE: Actually feel part of it. Exactly. Feel it.
CALLI: Um, so what would be something that you might say to a young aspiring scientist explore wanting to get out of the wild? How does one overcome that fear and let the curiosity win?
NATALIE: Oh, that's a beautiful question. As part of the Explorers Club, I saw this incredible quote given by one of the AC 50 speakers, and that quote was The most dangerous thing you can do is to remain safe. So it's about if if you really want to make a difference in the world, if you really, you know, want to follow your passion, you have to push that fear barrier. I just think you you can never go wrong whenever you follow your heart. And I would just encourage any kid interested in conservation to just get out there to again, spend time in nature, but try and get involved in in conservation activities. There's so many groups that you can join. There's so many things out there for kids and to stop that journey of curiosity. So I have a little nephew. He's four and he wants to be a scientist when he grows up. I was like, Whoa, hang on, be careful. It's not easy. But his curiosity is just we're trying to feed it like we're just giving him as much as possible. At the moment he's really fascinated by bugs and he lives in Australia and I'm unfortunately and I live in Canada, so we're miles apart, but I'm going back to visit at the end of the year and he just wants to explore with me. So I'm going to take him out and, you know, let him touch things in rock pools and pick up insects and uh, yeah, that we can discover in so many different ways. And it's, it's all about feeding that passion, feeding that love for nature, that that's wonderful.
CALLI: Thank you so, so much for your time and thank you for all of your work that you have done. Because, like I said, this is a game changer. This is I feel like something that is going to help animals all over the world. When it comes down to it. Like you're going to hear it as a species.
NATALIE: Oh, thank you so much. I mean, I'm excited about the applications to this. It's. But it's no easy feat trying to develop it, so. Yeah. I'm just keeping fingers crossed that we can do it.
[SFX: Whoosh]
NATE: Thank you once again to the incredible Dr. Natalie Schmitt for joining us today…
CALLI: Nate.
NATE: Mhmmm?
CALLI: NATE!
NATE: What!
CALLI: Were you looking at pictures of quokkas again?
NATE: They’re just so darn cute.
CALLI: Focus, we have to end the show! Next week we have another incredible guest for our Explorer’s Club series.
NATE: And this one is very special because it’s our last episode of the series! So be sure to tune in.
[SFX: Whoosh]
JOE: We're not we're expanding the realms of exploration. We're adding the realms of art. We're adding realms of exploration, of culture. We're adding sort of a layer of exploration that isn't necessarily geographic.
[SFX: Intro Music/Whoosh]
CALLI: I’m excited for this one, Nate.
NATE: Me too!
CALLI: We’ll see you then! And until next time, stay curious!