Curiosity Daily

Does Truth Serum Really Work? and Geology from Indigenous Myth

Episode Summary

Learn about an island “geomyth” that helped researchers solve an ancient mystery; and whether truth serum really works. An indigenous "geomyth" helped scientists figure out where 3 huge boulders came from by Grant Currin  Hakai Magazine. (2021). Rounding Out the Story of Three Legendary Boulders | Hakai Magazine. Hakai Magazine; Hakai Magazine. https://www.hakaimagazine.com/news/rounding-out-the-story-of-three-legendary-boulders/ Terry, J. P., Karoro, R., Gienko, G. A., Wieczorek, M., & Lau, A. Y. A. (2021). Giant palaeotsunami in Kiribati: Converging evidence from geology and oral history. Island Arc, 30(1). https://doi.org/10.1111/iar.12417  Does truth serum really work? by Cameron Duke Cottier, C. (2021). The Truth About Truth Serum. Discover Magazine; Discover Magazine. https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/the-truth-about-truth-serum Inglis-Arkell, E. (2012, April 19). What truths does “truth serum” sodium pentothal actually reveal? Gizmodo; Gizmodo. https://gizmodo.com/what-truths-does-truth-serum-sodium-pentothal-actuall-5902559 Winter, A. (2005). The Making of “Truth Serum,” 1920-1940. Bulletin of the History of Medicine, 79(3), 500–533. https://doi.org/10.1353/bhm.2005.0136 Follow Curiosity Daily on your favorite podcast app to learn something new every day withCody Gough andAshley Hamer. Still curious? Get exclusive science shows, nature documentaries, and more real-life entertainment on discovery+! Go to https://discoveryplus.com/curiosity to start your 7-day free trial. discovery+ is currently only available for US subscribers.

Episode Notes

Learn about an island “geomyth” that helped researchers solve an ancient mystery; and whether truth serum really works.

An indigenous "geomyth" helped scientists figure out where 3 huge boulders came from by Grant Currin

Does truth serum really work? by Cameron Duke

Follow Curiosity Daily on your favorite podcast app to learn something new every day with Cody Gough and Ashley Hamer. Still curious? Get exclusive science shows, nature documentaries, and more real-life entertainment on discovery+! Go to https://discoveryplus.com/curiosity to start your 7-day free trial. discovery+ is currently only available for US subscribers.

 

Find episode transcript here: https://curiosity-daily-4e53644e.simplecast.com/episodes/does-truth-serum-really-work-and-geology-from-indigenous-myth

Episode Transcription

CODY: Hi! You’re about to get smarter in just a few minutes with Curiosity Daily from Discovery. I’m Cody Gough.

ASHLEY: And I’m Ashley Hamer. Today, you’ll learn about an indigenous "geomyth" that helped scientists solve an ancient island mystery; and whether truth serum really works.

CODY: Let’s satisfy some curiosity.

An indigenous "geomyth" helped scientists figure out where 3 huge boulders came from by Grant Currin (Cody)

Researchers who study tsunamis in the Pacific Ocean have a problem: they don’t have any records of the ancient waves that surely swept the region from time to time. But someone does. A new study shows that residents of one Pacific Island have likely been telling and re-telling the story of an ancient tsunami for nearly 500 years.

Makin [MAY-kin] is one of the many atolls [AA-toles] that make up the modern nation of Kiribati [KEER-ih-bahs]. It has a distinctive geological feature: Three huge boulders made of dead coral that sit in the middle of the atoll, between two islands. The smallest one is 60 feet or 18 and a half meters around and sits underwater, and the largest is 130 feet or 39 meters around and sticks out of the water. That one is wider than a school bus is long. 

Indigenous residents of the island have a legend about how the boulders got there. It goes like this: A long time ago, villagers who lived on an island sent a gift of fruit to a neighboring king. When the king discovered the fruit was rotten, he punished the islanders by sending three huge waves crashing onto the tiny island, each wave carrying a giant boulder. Just before the third boulder hit, the king heard the villagers’ pleas for mercy and decided to spare them. 

Traditional stories that contain information about the geological history of a place are called “geomyths.” Indigenous cultures across the world use geomyths to share information and pass warnings through time. One story told by Aboriginal people in Australia is thought to tell the story of a volcanic eruption that happened 35,000 years ago!

Of course, not every traditional story is a geomyth, so geologists need a bit more supporting evidence to figure out what’s going on. Fortunately, the boulders on the Makin atoll contain two important clues. The first is their sheer size. These gigantic chunks of coral had to come from somewhere, but the geologists couldn’t find any evidence of a reef that size in the area. The most reasonable explanation is that a powerful tsunami ripped the rocks off a reef farther off the coast and deposited the boulders where they are now. The tsunami would have been strong, too: It must have been as powerful as the storm that hit Fukushima, Japan, in 2011. 

The second clue is in the chemical makeup of the boulders. Living coral incorporates uranium from the seawater as it grows, and this process stops when the coral dies. Because the chemical structure of uranium transforms over time, it’s possible to calculate when a piece of coral died. The researchers calculated that these boulders died almost 500 years ago — maybe because they were ripped from a larger reef by a really strong tsunami. 

Traditional geomyths made this discovery possible, and the researchers hope the more precise scientific knowledge of tsunamis in the region will ultimately benefit the people who live there. When it comes to tsunamis, you have to know what’s happened before to prepare for what might happen next. 

Does truth serum really work? by Cameron Duke (Ashley)

It’s a common scene in spy movies. The hero refuses to talk, but the villain has a foolproof plan…a truth serum that makes lying impossible. You might be surprised to learn that so-called “truth serums” have been used in real life. But do they work?

 

The modern fascination with truth serums began in the early 20th century. At the time, a drug called scopolamine [skoh-PAH-luh-meen] was widely used as an anesthetic for childbirth. It was intended to lull women into a “twilight sleep” while they were in labor. It was thought to erase any memories of the pain, and by all accounts, it actually seemed pretty effective. 

 

But in 1915, an obstetrician named Dr. Robert House noticed that his patients weren’t completely fading into a stupor. Instead, they seemed to be able to answer questions accurately. He reasoned that if the drug could make a woman forget the pain of childbirth without turning her memory into mush, it could probably make a person forget to lie without affecting their memory and comprehension. He pitched the idea of using scopolamine to exonerate the wrongly accused. He even performed a few experiments. This led to scopolamine becoming the first widely accepted truth serum. 

 

In the decades that followed, the list of alleged truth serums grew. Some of the most notable additions included the barbiturates sodium pentothal [PEN-tuh-thall] and sodium amytal [AM-ih-tall]. Many of these were originally developed as pain killers, like scopolamine was, and later moved into the interrogation room.

 

But do any of these drugs actually work? Do they really force people to tell the truth? 

 

Well physiologically, the drugs suppress the central nervous system, which creates a relaxing and even hypnotic effect. The idea is that lying requires more mental effort than telling the truth, so if your mental abilities are compromised, you might not be able to lie. But this doesn’t guarantee the truth as much as it creates an unreliable narrator. Someone under the influence of a so-called “truth serum” may end up telling the truth, but they could just as likely repeat suggestions posed by their interrogator or make up facts entirely. Outside of a controlled experiment, it’s nearly impossible to tell the difference. 

 

So while there are substances we call truth serums, whether they actually make people tell the truth is a roll of the dice. CODY: Like a 6-sided die or a D20?

RECAP

Let’s recap today’s takeaways

  1. ASHLEY: A “geomyth” from the people of Makin Atoll [MAY-kin AAH-tole] helped scientists learn more about the history of tsunamis in the area. Three large coral boulders sit in the water near the island, and the village tells of an angry king who sent those boulders toward the island atop giant waves. Sure enough, when scientists looked into it, they found evidence that those boulders must have hitched a ride on a giant tsunami. Geomyths like this can conserve geological history of an area for tens of thousands of years.
    1. CODY: Last month we covered a story about how a lot of fairy tales are older than you thought, and in that story we mentioned that fairy tales and folktales can contain hidden lessons about the past. So I was pretty pumped to learn about this story, because it’s literally exactly that.
  2. CODY: There are substances out there called “truth serums,” but whether they actually make people tell the truth is dubious at best. They suppress the nervous system and make mental effort more challenging, and since lying takes more effort than telling the truth, that should make it harder to lie. But people under the influence of truth serum are just as likely to make things up or repeat the suggestions of their interrogators as they are to tell the truth. 
    1. Mention how this has overlap with the 1950s psychedelics story, if it already ran: For one, the CIA was one of the first institutions to experiment with LSD, and one of the uses they investigated was its potential as a truth serum. 
    2. CODY: Project MKUltra was the codename for an illegal human experimentation program run by the CIA beginning in 1953, which ran for almost 20 years

[ad lib optional] 

ASHLEY: Today’s writers were Grant Currin and Cameron Duke. 

CODY: Our managing editor is Ashley Hamer. 

ASHLEY: Our producer and audio editor is Cody Gough.

CODY: [AD LIB SOMETHING FUNNY] Join us again tomorrow to learn something new in just a few minutes.

ASHLEY: And until then, stay curious!