Curiosity Daily

How to Talk to a Science Denier and Raining Sulfur in Sodom

Episode Summary

Learn about how to talk to someone who denies a scientific reality; and “raining sulfur” in the Biblical city of Sodom.  More from author Lee McIntyre: Pick up "How to Talk to a Science Denier: Conversations with Flat Earthers, Climate Deniers, and Others Who Defy Reason": https://www.amazon.com/How-Talk-Science-Denier-Conversations/dp/0262046105  Website: https://leemcintyrebooks.com/  Follow @leemcintyre on Twitter: https://twitter.com/leecmcintyre  Scientists think an impact event explains "raining sulfur" in the biblical city of Sodom by Briana Brownell Smithsonian Magazine, & Gershon, L. (2021, September 22). Ancient City’s Destruction by Exploding Space Rock May Have Inspired Biblical Story of Sodom. Smithsonian Magazine. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/destruction-of-city-by-space-rock-may-have-inspired-biblical-story-of-sodom-180978734/  ‌BBC - History - Ancient History in depth: The Destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. (2011). Bbc.co.uk. https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/cultures/sodom_gomorrah_01.shtml  ‌Bressan, D. (2021, September 21). Study Suggests That A Tunguska Sized Explosion Destroyed A City 3,600 Years Ago. Forbes. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidbressan/2021/09/21/a-tunguska-sized-explosion-destroyed-a-city-3600-years-ago/?sh=a02c2028b207  Follow Curiosity Daily on your favorite podcast app to learn something new every day withCody Gough andAshley Hamer. Still curious? Get exclusive science shows, nature documentaries, and more real-life entertainment on discovery+! Go to https://discoveryplus.com/curiosity to start your 7-day free trial. discovery+ is currently only available for US subscribers.

Episode Notes

Learn about how to talk to someone who denies a scientific reality; and “raining sulfur” in the Biblical city of Sodom.

More from author Lee McIntyre:

Scientists think an impact event explains "raining sulfur" in the biblical city of Sodom by Briana Brownell

Follow Curiosity Daily on your favorite podcast app to learn something new every day with Cody Gough and Ashley Hamer. Still curious? Get exclusive science shows, nature documentaries, and more real-life entertainment on discovery+! Go to https://discoveryplus.com/curiosity to start your 7-day free trial. discovery+ is currently only available for US subscribers.

 

Find episode transcript here: https://curiosity-daily-4e53644e.simplecast.com/episodes/how-to-talk-to-a-science-denier-and-raining-sulfur-in-sodom

Episode Transcription

CODY: Hi! You’re about to get smarter in just a few minutes with Curiosity Daily from curiosity-dot-com. I’m Cody Gough.

ASHLEY: And I’m Ashley Hamer. Today, you’ll learn about how to talk to someone who denies a scientific reality like COVID-19 or climate change, with help from author Lee McIntyre; and a scientific explanation of “raining sulfur” in the Biblical city of Sodom.

CODY: Let’s satisfy some curiosity.

Lee McIntyre - Who are science deniers (Cody)

By now, many of us have found ourselves in tense conversations with friends or family members who deny some scientific reality — whether that's to do with climate change, evolution, or the COVID-19 pandemic. Those conversations can be frustrating, and we don't always get them right. But today's guest might be able to help. Lee McIntyre is a Research Fellow at the Center for Philosophy and History of Science at Boston University, and the author of the new book "How to Talk to a Science Denier: Conversations with Flat Earthers, Climate Deniers, and Others Who Defy Reason." And to start our conversation, Ashley asked for a basic clarification.

[CLIP 6:28]

So practice good listening, ask questions, and give content rebuttal and technique rebuttal a try. And just remember that you won't change someone's mind overnight. Again, that was Lee McIntyre, author of the new book "How to Talk to a Science Denier: Conversations with Flat Earthers, Climate Deniers, and Others Who Defy Reason." He'll be back tomorrow to talk about the role identity plays in science denial.

Scientists think an impact event explains "raining sulfur" in the biblical city of Sodom by Briana Brownell (Ashley)

About 3,600 years ago, Tall el-Hammam [TAAL ELL-hem-MAHM] was a bustling city-state in the Jordan Valley near the Dead Sea. It thrived for 1,500 years — until a devastating event destroyed the city and contaminated the surrounding farmland with salt. What had once been an extremely fertile area became completely barren overnight. Humans left the region for at least 500 years afterward, and researchers have struggled to explain what happened. 

Now they think they’ve figured out an… otherworldly explanation. And one that matches an ancient story you might have already heard. Some historians have suggested the disaster parallels the biblical account of the destruction of the city of Sodom — one of the two cities in the Old Testament that were said to have been destroyed by God.

And destroyed it was. Tall el-Hammam was surrounded by a mudbrick wall that was 13 feet or 4 meters thick and 100 feet or 33 meters high. But almost all of the wall had been sheared off. And within the ruins, archaeologists found melted shards of pottery and precious metals, all covered with salt-heavy ash. 

They also found some strange materials: shocked quartz, which is a material that is common in nuclear bomb testing sites; tiny spheres containing iron and silica called spherules; and nano-scale diamonds. For these odd materials to form, the temperature would have been over 2,000 degrees celsius. That’s the surface temperature of a small red dwarf star!

So what happened? These signs pointed to some kind of extremely high energy, high temperature event. Scientists think it was a cosmic airburst caused by a large meteor exploding in the air above the city.

Cosmic airbursts happen all the time, but they’re usually small. When a meteor enters Earth’s atmosphere, friction from air molecules causes it to heat up. As the meteor hits the denser and denser air lower down in the atmosphere, it can become superheated and explode.

That’s what scientists think happened to Tall el-Hammam. Because of the extreme temperatures, it’s unlikely that the cause was an Earth-based phenomenon like an earthquake or volcanic eruption. And the technology at the time wasn’t advanced enough for the explosion to be human-made. So instead, scientists realized the most likely explanation was that it was a meteor. But since no impact crater was found, they figured a cosmic airburst fit the data best. 

The research team realized that something about the cosmic airburst story sounded familiar, like the Biblical story of the destruction of Sodom. The details of the story, such as fire and brimstone falling from the sky, seem to match what an eyewitness would have seen as a result of a cosmic airburst. Many archeologists and historians are debating whether the destruction of Tall el-Hammam might just be the source of this story. A 3,600 year-old mystery, solved.

RECAP

Let’s do a quick recap of what we learned today

  1. CODY: According to Lee McIntyre, there isn’t really such a thing as a quote-unquote “science denier.” There are people who identify as being skeptical about something specific, like vaccine efficacy or the causes of climate change. And almost every instance of science denial is based on a conspiracy theory. If you want to engage with someone you disagree with about something like this, then the first step is to listen — and listen closely — to what they’re saying.
  2. ASHLEY: Right. Then, there’s a proven approach you can take to help someone challenge their own ideas about something. It’s called technique rebuttal, and it’s based on challenging one of the 5 tropes of science denial: cherry-picking evidence, illogical reasoning, relying on conspiracy theories and fake experts, and insisting that science must be perfect. Listen to what they say and ask, “but isn’t that cherry picking evidence?” or “isn’t it inconsistent to believe one person’s evidence but not this other person’s?” Flip the script and call them out, and you could plant the seed for them to come around.
  3. CODY:  In the Old Testament Book of Genesis, Sodom is one of two cities said to have been destroyed by God for its wickedness. Now, scientists may have found the city that the story was based on. Tall el-Hammam was a bustling city-state in the Jordan Valley near the Dead Sea, and scientists believe it was destroyed by a cosmic airburst caused by a large meteor exploding in the air above the city. That may have explained the fire and brimstone falling from the sky in the Biblical account. 

[ad lib optional] 

ASHLEY: The writer for today’s raining sulfur story was Briana Brownell. 

CODY: Our managing editor is Ashley Hamer, who was also an audio editor on today’s episode.

ASHLEY: Our producer and audio editor is Cody Gough.

CODY: [AD LIB SOMETHING FUNNY] Join us again tomorrow to learn something new in just a few minutes.

ASHLEY: And until then, stay curious!