Jared Bauer, co-founder and head of content at Wisecrack, believes it's important to explore big ideas and meaningful topics through the lens of pop culture and media. On this episode of the Curiosity Podcast, the man who helped bring you Thug Notes, 8-Bit Philosophy, Earthling Cinema, The Philosophy of Everything, What Went Wrong?, Show Me the Meaning!, and more joins the Curiosity Podcast to discuss how studying the humanities and understanding cinema and television shows (like South Park and Rick and Morty) can enrich your life and make society better. Additional resources discussed: Special Guest Cody Gough from Curiosity.com Discusses Andrew Niccol's Gattaca with the Wisecrack crew (Jared, Austin, and Ryan)! on "Show Me The Meaning!" 5 Ways The Incredibles Is Ayn Randian Propaganda | Houston Press Why is 10:10 the Default Setting for Clocks and Watches? | Mental Floss Wisecrack: Wisecrack on YouTube Wisecrack.co (Official Website) Christopher Nolan Video Playlist Star Wars: The Last Jedi – Themes Explained – Wisecrack Quick Take Show Me The Meaning! – A Wisecrack Movie Podcast (Explicit) Respect Our Authoritah! – A SOUTH PARK Podcast by Wisecrack (Explicit) Wisecrack's THE SQUANCH: A Rick & Morty Podcast (Explicit) Follow Curiosity Daily on your favorite podcast app to get smarter withCody Gough andAshley Hamer — for free! Still curious? Get exclusive science shows, nature documentaries, and more real-life entertainment on discovery+! Go to https://discoveryplus.com/curiosity to start your 7-day free trial. discovery+ is currently only available for US subscribers.
Jared Bauer, co-founder and head of content at Wisecrack, believes it's important to explore big ideas and meaningful topics through the lens of pop culture and media. On this episode of the Curiosity Podcast, the man who helped bring you Thug Notes, 8-Bit Philosophy, Earthling Cinema, The Philosophy of Everything, What Went Wrong?, Show Me the Meaning!, and more joins the Curiosity Podcast to discuss how studying the humanities and understanding cinema and television shows (like South Park and Rick and Morty) can enrich your life and make society better.
Additional resources discussed:
Wisecrack:
Follow Curiosity Daily on your favorite podcast app to get smarter with Cody Gough and Ashley Hamer — for free! Still curious? Get exclusive science shows, nature documentaries, and more real-life entertainment on discovery+! Go to https://discoveryplus.com/curiosity to start your 7-day free trial. discovery+ is currently only available for US subscribers.
Full episode transcript here: https://curiosity-daily-4e53644e.simplecast.com/episodes/wisecracks-jared-bauer-on-how-movies-and-tv-shows-like-south-park-and-rick-and-morty-help-us-understand-ourselves
CODY GOUGH: I'm curious. How can getting a better knowledge of writing and philosophy help people enjoy their favorite movies and TV shows more?
JARED BAUER: A piece of media, whether it's a TV show or a film or a book, it's almost a lens through which to look at the world. It's an ideological lens. And I think that by studying these ideological lenses, not only can we introduce new ideas to people, but we can allow for people to engage more critically with everything around them.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
CODY GOUGH: Hi, Cody Gough with the critically engaged, curiosity.com.
ASHLEY HAMER: And I'm Ashley Hamer. Today, we're going to help you enjoy your favorite movies and TV shows even more than you already were.
CODY GOUGH: Every week, we explore what we don't know because curiosity makes you smarter.
ASHLEY HAMER: This is the Curiosity podcast.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Think about your favorite TV show or movie, why do you love it so much? What's that secret szechuan sauce that makes it so special?
CODY GOUGH: Today's guest has dedicated his career to helping you understand what movies and TV shows like South Park and Rick and Morty are trying to tell us.
ASHLEY HAMER: Jared Bauer is the co-founder and head of content at Wisecrack, which produces hit YouTube series like Thug Notes, 8-Bit Philosophy, Earthling Cinema, The Philosophy of Everything, What Went Wrong, and more.
CODY GOUGH: Wisecrack is focused on exploring big ideas and meaningful topics through the lens of pop culture and media. And Jared argues that that's a really important thing to do.
ASHLEY HAMER: Here's why.
JARED BAUER: Let's say you're watching something like Fight Club. Let's say you're watching something that you really love. I think that on a very basic level, what we do is arm people or equip them with verbiage, with ways of explaining or contextualizing, why is it that movie just gave me this high? People watch Fight Club, and they say, oh, my god, that's one of the best movies I've ever seen. But it's very hard to put into words why it affects you so much. And by using a critical lens and exploring the ideas, I think that on a subconscious level, people are, in a sense, aware that these movies are dealing with ideas that perhaps resonate with an individual because they reflect a struggle that they're going through in life, or it asks big questions that they've been asking themselves.
And throughout the movie, these questions are similarly explored. And we put that into words for them so that they can-- on a very basic level, someone says, oh, Fight Club is your favorite movie, well, why? And instead of just saying, well, that Brad Pitt has a really sexy six pack. You can hopefully say something a little bit more insightful that also allows you to reflect on struggles or conflicts, or thoughts that you are experiencing in your own life. And just also allow you to look critically at yourself and say, why is it that these things resonate me and these things don't? What does that say about my life? What does that say about the society that I live in? And how society is affecting me, et cetera, et cetera.
But on top of that, I think that one thing that analyzing the humanities can do for people, at least the idealistic mission statement for me, is that it allows A, you to put yourself into someone else's shoes. I think that empathy is something that studying media and literature can help increase, but also inform you on the choices that you make and the way that you treat other people. I think that science and math-- although I love that stuff and I love learning about that stuff, and I'm a big fan of your podcast-- I think that one of the things that the humanities can do is help inform your choices. The choices that you make. And that's, I think, where the humanities is a bit underappreciated in the way that it can bring more to people's lives.
CODY GOUGH: Your background is in the humanities. You have a PhD in philosophy?
[LAUGHS]
JARED BAUER: No, I've-- to be honest, I've never taken a philosophy class in my life. I actually--
CODY GOUGH: What?
JARED BAUER: --just have a, I have a Bachelors of Science and Filmmaking from the University of Texas. The way I put it to people is that filmmaking was my gateway drug to the humanities and to philosophy. There's a philosopher-- I can't remember his name, unfortunately-- but he has a thesis that film is a medium that does philosophy. Just based on the foundation that it's something that has a character that goes through a struggle and that struggle finds some resolve, inherently, there is going to be an ideological statement made in a TV show, or a film, or a book. And so I think that cinema and philosophy go very hand in hand. And so in a way when I studied cinema, it was a very easy gateway drug. It's the way I like to put it into understanding philosophy and getting excited about philosophy.
Because I wanted to know like, oh, my god, how is Christopher Nolan so good? How is Quentin Tarantino so good? How do these people affect me so profoundly? And although philosophy is not necessarily the answer, it was an answer that really resonated with me and really piqued my interest. And I just had to learn more and more and more about it. So, yeah, I'm just a filmmaker who got really curious about the humanities.
CODY GOUGH: To make a couple reference points here, you mentioned Christopher Nolan. So you've talked about The Dark Knight series, you have separate podcasts individually for South Park and for Rick and Morty, which I want to ask you specifically about in a couple of minutes, but we'll get to that. Your criticisms and analysis have covered everything from the latest Star Wars films to again Fight Club, you've mentioned in lots of other popular shows. You're attracted to film, specifically. And some of what you talk about in your reviews explains how these productions are exploring ideas that are sometimes thousands of years old. They can go back to Aristotle or Plato, or older or newer. Why do you think it's important to explore those ideas in a new way?
JARED BAUER: OK, I actually want to just hear, I mean, just to play devil's advocate here, why is it important to learn about science?
CODY GOUGH: OK, let's do that. Why is it important to learn about science?
JARED BAUER: Oh, no. I'm asking you.
CODY GOUGH: Oh, you want to hear from me?
JARED BAUER: Yeah, because-- yeah, I guess, just playing devil's advocate. I'm just curious to hear. It seems like because modern education does not emphasize, at least public education does not emphasize hermeneutics. Hermeneutics is the idea of interpreting a text. Basically if you go to law school, you're basically doing hermeneutics for the rest of your life, and if you become a lawyer. So you could say that, yeah, doing Wisecrack stuff can train you to be a lawyer. But more than that, I mean, there is a more idealistic statement to it.
But, yeah, I guess I just wanted to throw that back to you and say, other than just curiosity and making life more fulfilling, people ask why are the humanities important, or why is it important to read cinema like it's some novel thing. But I guess I always just want to hear, OK, well, then why is the things that people take as a given, why are those important?
CODY GOUGH: That's a very good question.
[LAUGHS]
Honestly. And I think that there is value in understanding the world around you. And I think that for scientists, and for people that consume content around the sciences, it's easy for them to point at something that is scientifically proven or observable in a concrete way. And say, here's the thing I can look at and understand the world around me better. I think it's important to understand science to understand the constants or those concrete things around us. Look around and say, why does wood splinter? Why won't I pour cold water in a hot glass, might the glass shatter? So that you understand how to operate under the restrictions of the world around you and also look at the possibilities of what might come next. But that's more of how you can do things or the way in which you can do things. Whereas the humanities, which I think is vitally important, is asking, why do we do these things? Or more importantly, why ought we do these things?
ASHLEY HAMER: Right. But the interesting thing is, when I ask you why science is important, now, you're doing philosophy.
[LAUGHS]
Because what you're saying can't be proven in an empirical or scientific method. So I think that people say-- and I think that there's some a statement that I saw that once you question why is science important, you're doing philosophy. So you can't really separate the two as much as one might think.
CODY GOUGH: Yeah, they really do go in hand in hand. And science ethics is an entire field of study.
JARED BAUER: Absolutely, yeah.
ASHLEY HAMER: To get even more meta, there's also an entire field of study into the philosophy of science. I mean, think about it. Science is a method we use to know what's true. But how do science really does that? Why is it better to look for evidence to falsify your beliefs than to support them? What kind of evidence is good evidence? How do you know a scientific result is real and not just a blip in the data? Science has hard and fast answers for many of these questions, but humans had to come up with those answers. Those humans were philosophers. Philosophers like Aristotle, Francis Bacon, and Rene Descartes.
CODY GOUGH: So, yeah. You've won the discussion.
JARED BAUER: Oh, no. I'm sorry. That was--
CODY GOUGH: No, it all worked really well. I mean, I think if your answer is, well, you tell me and-- you're Socratic methoding me. I see what you're doing.
JARED BAUER: Yeah, I mean, it's important to me, I think, because it's really hard these days to communicate new ideas to people. It's very hard to get people to even open themselves up to new ideas. I think that we live in a time where because of technology, we're always inundated with so much information, so much stuff. Culture has accelerated to a ridiculous rate and people need a sense of comfort. They can't ingest all this information. So I mean, this is very much the discussion we have around bubbles, about ideological bubbles that people keep themselves in.
I believe that you can't really just convince somebody that, hey, you're wrong, I'm right, or, consider this idea. They're going to be resistant to it. And I actually feel empathy for these people who are resistant to it because I don't blame them. There are enough problems going on in the world and in people's personal lives. They don't need extra challenges to their lives. So let me give you an example. One of the best videos we've ever made, and one of the ones that has given me the most inspiration for the work that we've done is a video on the philosophy of an anime called Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood. Are you familiar with it, Cody?
CODY GOUGH: I've not seen Fullmetal Alchemist. It's on my list.
JARED BAUER: Before doing Wisecrack, I was not educated in anime at all. And I watched all 64 episodes of the anime and I was blown away. One of the reasons why the show is so brilliant is because it questions whether science or faith is-- what is the arbiter of truth? And ultimately, it comes to a rather ambiguous conclusion that you can't put all your, quote unquote, "faith in science, nor can you do it with faith."
And so that's an idea like if you are a part of the new atheist movement or you are someone of faith, and your beliefs are very rigid, it's very hard for somebody to convince somebody like, hey, I'm going to challenge your beliefs. They're going to inherently resist that. It's like I always bring up the example in the movie Inception. Have you seen it, Cody?
CODY GOUGH: Not seen Inception, either.
JARED BAUER: OK, well, there's a part where Leonardo DiCaprio is trying to convince Ken Watanabe that incepting an idea or putting an idea in someone's brain is impossible directly because if I tell you, Cody, don't think about elephants, the first thing that's going to come to your mind is elephants. So in the same way, if I'm trying to convince you, who, maybe you are a very rigid atheist, and I'm trying to convince you that there's value in faith, you're going to inherently be resistant to that idea because it's something that you believe very firmly. And you are already primed to try and disprove what I'm telling you.
But let's say that you're a huge fan of Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood, that the characters really speak to you. And the narrative is something that you revisit over and over and over again. Now imagine that I can use evidence and bring in a tangential philosophy that highlight and broaden the ideas of this anime that you love. And if I can convince you that these ideas are in the thing that's given meaning to your life. And I think that entertainment, television, movies, books, these are the things that give people meaning in their lives. Then I can open up their minds, then I can challenge them to think differently. Because they already love the property.
So one of the best emails we've ever gotten was from somebody saying that, all my life, I've felt very strongly that there is no God, and I've looked down upon people of faith. But after watching your video, I've reconsidered my position and now I feel respect for people of faith. And just that paradigm shift that can be done from an internet video is so profound. And that email that I received, and I've talked about it a couple of times on the channel and on our podcasts, has been very meaningful to me. Because that's ultimately, the mission statement for me is getting people to open their eyes, accept new ideas, and put themselves in other people's shoes. And I think that reaching people by the things that they already love is a really good way to give people a transformative experience.
ASHLEY HAMER: According to many epistemologists, that is people who are experts in the study of knowledge, all beliefs, even scientific theories, are based at least in part on faith. It just isn't possible for people to justify all of their beliefs. Even if it were, it would be impossible to justify all of the beliefs you use to justify your beliefs, and the beliefs that justify those beliefs, and so on. You believe A because of B, you believe B because of C, you believe C because of, D where does it end? And if it does end, does that mean your beliefs aren't justified? At some point, you need to simply accept something as true without interrogating it. If that's not taking things on faith, what is?
CODY GOUGH: You keep it entertaining too. And most of what you do is very, very funny.
JARED BAUER: Yeah, we try and-- the whole idea of Wisecrack is that we're going to explore big ideas but we're going to not take ourselves too seriously. And at the end of the day, what do we know?
[LAUGHS]
CODY GOUGH: Exactly. You mentioned tribalism. Is that one of the reasons that you dedicate an entire podcast, an entire channel to South Park, specifically?
JARED BAUER: Yeah. So I'm a huge South Park fan. And I think that South Park-- Matt and Trey-- actually my co-founder, Jacob, who's actually right next to me, him and I do see Matt Stone and Trey Parker as idols of ours. And part of the reason is because they exist very outside of the Hollywood ideological bubble. They don't give a [BLEEP] who they offend. And it allows them to make political statements and make political satire that most other people in Hollywood who are just trying to get a paycheck and maintain their reputation in Hollywood, and get hired for another job, can't do.
That's why I think it's really important to study South Park. Because they can challenge the quote unquote, "groupthink" of Hollywood, or whatever. So you're going to see satirical points in South Park that just, unfortunately, can't come up in most media in Hollywood.
CODY GOUGH: Yeah, the dominant, I guess, Civil War going on in the United States right now is probably left versus right. I think most people can agree based on just looking at anything. And they tend to satirize both. But what I have found interesting is some of the feedback they've received is there are people on both sides that will watch their episodes and say, wow, I completely agree with this. But then often ascribe some of the things they're satirizing to the other side even if they're really trying to satirize their side. How many people watching South Park do you think fully understand what they're getting at? And how do you think that you, Wisecrack, are able to look at it objectively and interpret who they're trying to poke fun at?
JARED BAUER: Interestingly enough, I think that's one of the great things about the show. So at Wisecrack, we have contributors with a variety of beliefs. So we have some people who would consider themselves far left commies, and we have people who are libertarians.
[LAUGHS]
And it's actually really nice is that some episodes, particularly this most recent season, season 21, there was the pilot episode. It was called, White People Renovating Houses. And it was supposed to be a nuanced look at the specter of automation, and the whole Charlottesville thing, and blue collar workers who are unable to find jobs, and the rise of Trump, all that stuff. And it's very interesting how some of our contributors who are more on the left saw that as a condemnation of white liberals, who allow things like Charlottesville to go on without any critical condemnation of it. But on the other hand, you could look at the episode just as much as an empathetic exploration of the plight of the blue collar working man in America.
And I think that sometimes South Park is able to achieve that very precise balance and tone, other times not. The show is far from perfect. There are certainly some episodes that are better than others. But in terms of how much people are getting it, I don't really know. There's does-- I mean, South Park is definitely one of our more popular properties that we cover, which is why we have a whole podcast dedicated to it. So there certainly is a significant audience of people who do want to engage with it in a satirical way. And I do think that the show in general, even to the person who's just a casual viewer, does have a reputation for being a satirical show. And I think that these days, once again, when we have very strict ideological divides, satire is more important than perhaps it ever has been.
And they have very nuanced takes on Trump. By the way, if anyone's listening and they say, man, I haven't seen South Park in so long. I cannot recommend enough. This past season, season 21, I believe it was episode five. It's called, Doubling Down. And it is the most nuanced, intelligent, and unfortunately, tragic take on Trump's America. And it's beautiful.
CODY GOUGH: And as soon as it's in Trump's America, some people are just, their brains are exploding right now.
JARED BAUER: I'm sure.
CODY GOUGH: And immediately jumping to motivated reasoning and to defending. When you even say the phrase, Trump's America and nuance, I don't think a lot of people are able to look at those two things at the same time.
JARED BAUER: I mean, that's definitely a frustration. It's because I'm not saying that Trump is a bad president, and I'm not saying Trump is a great president. I'm just saying that he is the president and things are different now than they were. And South Park is-- and you'll watch the episode. The episode is just as condemning of Trump as it is to the left that criticizes him no matter what he does. So yeah, I want to make that clear that I'm not saying that Trump is super evil, and South Park is making fun of them. No, South Park is saying that perhaps Trump, although not perfect, is just a symptom of a greater problem. And there are people on both sides of the aisle playing into these problems.
CODY GOUGH: I am totally on board with you. I'm a huge South Park fan. I see a lot of the nuance. I love listening to your podcast on it because I was just listening to, I think, that episode where you review that particular episode of the show. And I picked up a lot of the nuance, but you dive into some things even deeper. Some people on your team have a background in maybe philosophy, or are you just really good critics?
JARED BAUER: Yeah, so most of them do have an education in philosophy. A lot of our contributors are either in or have recently left academia. In our movie podcast, Show Me The Meaning, one of our hosts, Austin, is actually a philosophy PhD but also a movie fan. There has to be that balance. And, yeah, I guess I would consider myself a critic who is a big philosophy enthusiast.
And then we have one girl, one of our best writers. Her name is Amanda, and she's just like me. She's just a film nerd. She went to film school. She loves to write. And she just is very curious. And she does all her own research and she just nails it every time. So it doesn't really-- you don't really require a formal education necessarily, no granted when someone like me or Amanda does our own research. We definitely do check it with the experts. But really all you need is the curiosity and the desire to understand the material, and to really dive deep into the text. And that's something that we're also very passionate about, encouraging people to do.
CODY GOUGH: For people to do on their own.
JARED BAUER: Absolutely.
CODY GOUGH: You're encouraging people to watch their favorite content and take a critical look at it, and think about what is this actually saying beyond just, maybe in the case of Star Wars the Last Jedi, maybe just beyond explosions. And there are a lot of YouTube channels. You can just turn on anything related to sci-fi, any Marvel comics property, any Star Wars property, and you just have a bunch of fanboys or fangirls, or both, gushing about that particular property while not really looking objectively at anything it's actually trying to say.
JARED BAUER: Yeah, but then again, that's where all the views are. So sometimes I say to myself, who's the idiot, them or me?
[LAUGHS]
CODY GOUGH: True.
[LAUGHS]
Well, I want to know when is a bad movie or a bad TV show just a bad movie or show? Because I'm thinking about Jersey Shore, you're not going to do a close reading on that. I mean, sometimes even with Star Wars, some people might stand back and look at, especially with Episode Seven The Force Awakens, on its surface, it's really easy to look at and say, this movie was made because Walt Disney wanted to make a bunch of money. They wanted to print money and put explosions on the screen, and they knew people would see it. And that was all there is to it. So is there a line, or is there always something to be read into with popular films?
JARED BAUER: Well, I think you can bridge that. We're actually talking about this our most recent episode that actually just came out today of our movie podcast, Show Me The Meaning, we talk about the movie The Incredibles. And there's very interesting message about greatness in that movie. I won't go into it, it's too much detail.
ASHLEY HAMER: Show Me The Meaning does a fascinating dive into The Incredibles. And you should really listen to that episode. But here's one interesting position that others have taken. It channels Ayn Rand, I mean, it's a story about these highly gifted individuals that are forced to lessen their greatness to make other people comfortable. The villain is a normal guy who uses science and technology to undermine the elite and try to create a world where everyone is special, and therefore, no one is special. The movie even begins with a lawsuit in which the protagonist ideals come back to bite them, which is precisely what happens in Atlas Shrugged. The parallels are uncanny.
JARED BAUER: So you're talking about it's like, all right. So on the one hand, Disney just wants to make money and any attempt to read ideologically into the movie is really just overthinking it because all they're trying to do is make money. I just want to be sure that's the question you're asking.
CODY GOUGH: Yeah, devil's advocate here.
ASHLEY HAMER: So I would argue that ideology is something that makes money. So I think that it's not a mistake that in the new movie, Star Wars Episode Eight The Last Jedi , one could argue, and I'm not saying this is what I believe, but one could argue that the more egalitarian message that-- by the way, spoilers, if you haven't seen Episode Eight-- we find out that Rey's parents are just these randos. It's not that she's a descendant of noble blood. And then there's a significant emphasis on these poor people who are ultimately the heroes, or the people that are going to continue the cause of the rebellion. At the end, there's those poor kids on Canto Bight, or whatever.
And I would argue, if you look at the business model of movies, it's not like Bugatti or something like that. It's not where-- every movie ticket costs the same amount of money. You can't say, all right, well, I'm going to see Moonlight, that's a prestige film. It's going to cost $20 a ticket. No, every-- and then you can't say Transformers is only $10 they get. No, it's all one price. So you have to include messages that are going to resonate with the most amount of people. So if Star Wars Episode Eight is saying that, oh, no, there's no such thing as noble blood. Anyone can be great. Well, that's going to help Disney make some money, so I don't really think the two are as different as you think.
CODY GOUGH: Yeah, if you do look at the original films, the scum and villainy of the universe was in the Cantina. It was people that are aliens and they look different, and they're just very different from everybody else. So it comes out 2017, and who are these big evil people that they lampoon, and that everyone gets so much glee and messing with, it's the rich people in the casino. It's one percenters which signifies, I think, a gigantic cultural shift from the 70s.
JARED BAUER: Absolutely.
CODY GOUGH: Yeah, so I do agree here. I just didn't know if there was a threshold. I mean, are you-- can you do a reading of the room?
[LAUGHS]
JARED BAUER: It's funny you say that. Someone wants to do that. And we might do it for April Fools.
[LAUGHS]
But, look, so you mentioned the Jersey Shore. So, yeah, Jersey Shore, there's probably not a lot in the text in which we can say, oh, Snooki represents this. No, that would be a little bit ridiculous.
[LAUGHS]
However, I do think that you could say that the prevalence, or the popularity, of Jersey Shore does say something about our culture. And I think that would be an appropriate lens to look at it from. But sure, I mean, some things are not worth analyzing. And believe me, there are plenty of things that are super popular on YouTube that would get us a lot of views-- and by the way, the whole business is based on views, so this is a pressure we deal with on a daily basis. We would love to do super popular properties that are dumb but there's just nothing to say.
So don't think that we just squeeze whatever we can out of anything. I mean, I would love to have dipped into the Five Nights At Freddy's craze. Those of you who don't know what it is, it's a jump scare game that was literally the biggest thing in the world on YouTube for years. Probably still is, or Minecraft. But there's just nothing in the text there to analyze. So I mean, we do have a standard where we say that, OK, that's not worth analyzing. There's nothing smart to say in that, et cetera, et cetera.
I think some of our best episodes are when there's a very unexpectedly smart message. Actually next week, we're releasing a video on the newest installment of the Saw franchise, Jigsaw. Let me tell you, I watched the movie twice. First time, I said, oh, there's nothing here. The second time I watched it, I was like, wait a second. I think there's a deliberate nod to a 60s French existentialist short story called, No Exit. And the evidence is there. If you get a chance to watch the video, I'd love for you to email me and tell me what you think. Because I think it's actually going to be one of our best videos, and I am equally shocked that French existentialist thought found its way into the new Jigsaw movie. But I think it did, and I think it was deliberate.
ASHLEY HAMER: No Exit is a seminal one act play by Jean-Paul Sartre. It's a particularly bleak book by a particularly bleak philosopher, in a particularly bleak tradition. In it, three people are locked in a room. And I won't spoil the rest. Ever heard the saying, hell is other people? This play is where that comes from. Essentially, it's about the unbreakable tension between how you're perceived by others and how you perceive yourself.
CODY GOUGH: I like how you've named three or four really popular movies and I haven't seen them at all. But as soon as you mentioned the French existentialist work, No Exit, I was totally on board. I am all about No Exit.
[LAUGHS]
JARED BAUER: In Jigsaw, in one of the traps, there's a sign on one of the doors that says, no exit. And I was like, huh. And then sure enough, one of the characters goes through the exact same struggle. One of the female characters has the exact same plot points as one of the characters in No Exit. And both Jigsaw and No Exit are about the painful nature of confession. And so I was blown away by that. But I mean, it's fun when we find gems like that.
CODY GOUGH: I mentioned I'm on board with South Park, big fan, long time viewer. What is the deal with Rick and Morty? Because I haven't gotten into it. Everyone seems to either be obsessed with it or be lukewarm on it. And what do you see in it that's so valuable?
JARED BAUER: So Rick and Morty, I mean, at this point, it's a sensation. It's so popular. I mean, one of the reasons why it's so popular is really good writing. Dan Harmon is a perfectionist when it comes to structure. And he's got a writers room of really smart people. And the premise of Rick and Morty is that we have this cosmic landscape where Rick is a scientist who's literally the smartest man alive, and he can jump dimensions. And the universe is portrayed as this giant cold, uncaring place.
And the character of Rick, who's this omnipotent, omniscient scientist, is that despite all this knowledge he has, or arguably because of all this knowledge he has, he can't find meaning in life. And he struggles with going on in life because existence is just this big void to him. And so the show deals with a lot of existential and specifically nihilistic themes. And we actually just made a video recently about nihilism in Rick and Morty and BoJack Horseman. And I think that those issues of finding meaning in life, of knowing what to do once the illusion has been shattered, whether it be a religious illusion or some other idealistic illusion, I think that disillusionment in general is something that our generation is dealing with a lot, whether it's the idealistic life that you've been sold as a child through media. Once that illusion is shattered, what do you do? How do you find meaning in life once meaning has been constructed with so many years through those idealistic images, similarly with religion?
And Rick and Morty is all about that. It's all about the struggle to find meaning once you live in a reality in which there are no illusions to comfort you. And so I think that that's one of the reasons why the show is so popular, and specifically why it's so popular in our channel because there's a great overlap in that we are channel that is dedicated to talking about meaning. And Rick and Morty is a funny, very entertaining show about the pursuit of meaning, and perhaps the futile pursuit of meaning. And so I think it's a mix of being a great show and reflecting on ideas that are really things that people are struggling with today, especially young people.
CODY GOUGH: That now, I'm compelled to watch it, or watch more of it. I've seen a couple episodes and I enjoyed them, which is--
JARED BAUER: I would say the first couple of episodes of season one, if you're watching it chronologically, it takes about until like episode four to get into the groove. And then from then on through season three, it's all just top shelf television.
CODY GOUGH: And on the Rick and Morty podcast, you've had writers on the podcast?
JARED BAUER: Yeah, we had recently Brian Wysol, who was a writer on season two and recently just launched his own show called Hot Streets.
CODY GOUGH: Other than consuming all of Wisecracks content, and you've delivered your message many different ways with, again, Thug Notes, 8-Bit Philosophy, Earthling Cinema, there's so many different ways that you deliver this and so many different voices, so if somebody is not attracted to one, they may love another. Other than checking out all of Wisecracks really smart content, which I really do think is really cool stuff, how can I sit down, if I'm the average person. I have no background in philosophy. Maybe I never went to college, never did a lot of reading of classic literature. How can I look at a film and understand, or think about it in a way that will allow me to enjoy it more on a deeper level? Or is that your job?
JARED BAUER: I mean, that's my job. The thing I always tell people is that focus on the ending. The ending is where you'll get the strongest ideological statement, especially if you're talking about a movie. Which is why it's a lot harder to analyze an ongoing TV series. So for example, people always ask us, do philosophy of Game of Thrones. It's almost impossible to do that because we don't know what the conclusion is. And the conclusion is what gives you that ideological statement.
You always have to ask yourself, how is it that the protagonist achieves salvation? Usually in most stories, they achieve salvation in some way or another. And the way that they overcome their conflict is usually where the ideological statement lies. So for example, in The Dark Knight, at the end-- and I hope everyone has seen The Dark Knight because it's probably my favorite movie of that last decade. So Batman has to lie and say that Harvey Dent was noble until the end, and he takes responsibility for the murders.
And so you could argue that the ideological statement is that, that even the greatest ideal can be torn down, but it requires a platonic noble lie in order to keep society together. So that's a way that you can read it. And it's all based on the conclusion, how does Batman save the day? It's not by beating up the Joker, it's not by calming the people of Gotham. It's by a lie. And a lie that maintains a pure image of a Christ-like ideal.
CODY GOUGH: I would like to wrap up with the Curiosity challenge. And I'll give you a break for a second. I'm actually going to ask you a trivia question about something I read on curiosity.com and see if you know about this. Keeping in the film categories, and that's what we've been talking about for the whole episode.
So the US Library of Congress in Washington is home to more than 160 million books and recordings, and photos and manuscripts, but not everything is kept there. 75 miles to the Southwest and near the foothills of the Blue Ridge mountains, there is a facility that houses 6.3 million collection items, 140,000 reels of film. And those reels include classics like Casablanca, even nitrate film, an old medium that's kept in its own vaults because it's highly flammable. It is called the Packard Campus of the National Audiovisual Conservation Center. It's a 415,000 square foot facility. It is a converted facility. Can you tell me what the facility used to be? And what it was originally designed to house?
JARED BAUER: So this is going to be a pure guess, but I'm going to guess that it used to be a prison and it used to house inmates.
CODY GOUGH: Oh, good guess. Very good guess, but that is not the correct answer. It was opened in 1969 during the Cold War and was originally a nuclear bunker designed to house $4 billion in gold, enough to replenish the US cash supply, east of the Mississippi River, should the unthinkable happen. At the time of its construction, it was reportedly the world's largest single floor vault.
JARED BAUER: Did you guys know that? OK, good. I don't feel that stupid. The two people next to me didn't know that either.
[LAUGHS]
CODY GOUGH: It's supposed to be obscure. But anyway, you can read about that on curiosity.com. And I believe you brought a question for me.
JARED BAUER: I did. Cody, what is the world's most expensive coffee, and why?
CODY GOUGH: Is it coffee from an Arctic-- no, that doesn't make sense. Oh, boy. I'm going to say from France because it's on a really rich vineyard.
JARED BAUER: It's civet coffee. It's coffee that is ingested by a civet, and then defecated out, and then made into coffee.
CODY GOUGH: What is it?
JARED BAUER: What is a civet? Yeah, it's like a nocturnal weaselly thing. It's apparently very unethical. It's like, what is that thing with the ducks? That delicacy that requires you to do something inhumane to a duck?
SPEAKER 1: Foie gras.
CODY GOUGH: Wow. How much is it? Do you know?
JARED BAUER: $50 for an 8 ounce bag. It's called Kopi luwak, is the name of the coffee.
CODY GOUGH: Kopi luwak coffee. All right. This--
JARED BAUER: Actually, the civet actually looks cute.
CODY GOUGH: This is the weirdest trivia question. Oh, yeah, our producer just pulled up an image. It's cute. It's like a little bear. We will have links in the show notes to all of your properties. So we're going to have a very long show notes. Jared, thank you so much for joining me.
JARED BAUER: Thank you, Cody.
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ASHLEY HAMER: What time is it? It's extra credit question time. This week's extra credit question comes from Ramseys, and it's all about time. Ramseys wants to know why all the watches in advertisements are always set to 10:10. If you have a question you'd like answered on a future show, send it in an email with your name to podcast@curiosity.com. The answer, after this.
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CODY GOUGH: If you want to hear more from Jared, then believe it or not, he's on three different podcasts from Wisecrack. I seriously don't know how he has time to do them all. I'll warn you that they are explicit podcasts, meaning that they include adult language. So parents, you might not want to let your kids listen until they're a bit more grown up. But for consenting adults, you can find links to all of Wisecracks podcasts in the show notes of this episode, including links to Respect Our Authoritah, a South Park podcast, The Squanch, a Rick and Morty podcast, and of course, the film podcast, Show Me The Meaning.
If you want to hear more of me and Jared, then check out the episode of Show Me The Meaning from February 16, 2018, in which we all discuss the 1997 film Gattaca. It would mean a lot to both me and to the Wisecrack team if you have some time to check out that episode while you're waiting for us to release the next exciting episode of the Curiosity podcast. Again, listener discretion is advised, but it's all really smart stuff. Thanks for checking it out. And if you do check it out, then please let us know what you think.
ASHLEY HAMER: It's time for the extra credit answer. Ramseys wanted to know why watch ads always set the time to 10:10. First, let's dive into the myths. It's not to memorialize Abraham Lincoln, John F. Kennedy, or Martin Luther King Jr. Even though people say 10:10 is when they died, it wasn't. They all died at different times a day. It's also not the time the bomb was dropped on either Nagasaki or Hiroshima. What it is, is nice aesthetics.
When an analog watch is set to 10:10, it makes sure the hands aren't overlapping, so you can fully appreciate what they look like. They don't cover the other features like date windows, which are usually placed near the six, three, or nine, and they elegantly frame the logo. That's it. Next time you see a watch ad, keep an eye out for what time it's set to. Thanks for your question.
CODY GOUGH: And thanks again to Reuben Westmaas, our colleague, for just amazing research on this episode.
ASHLEY HAMER: Yeah, he's really smart about philosophy. I was really happy to have his help.
CODY GOUGH: Yeah, you do did a rock star job. And you don't have the flu anymore.
ASHLEY HAMER: Hooray!
CODY GOUGH: It's so cool. And our next episode is going to be big.
ASHLEY HAMER: Big.
CODY GOUGH: Like really big.
ASHLEY HAMER: I'm so excited about that one.
CODY GOUGH: We are going to talk to Dr. Michio Kaku, who is--
ASHLEY HAMER: He's huge.
CODY GOUGH: He's a theoretical physicist, and he's written a book about the future of humanity.
ASHLEY HAMER: He writes a lot of books about just the future of everything. The Future of the Mind, The Future of Technology. It's really fun. It's like it's like sci-fi except without the fi. It's great.
CODY GOUGH: Yeah, he talks about stuff that I didn't think was a thing, but is going to be a thing. Or is a thing. It's just out of control. So check us out next week. And again, check out all of the really cool content from Wisecrack. They've got a lot of stuff on YouTube. They can tend to be a little bit more clean than some of their podcasts, which are all explicit, again. But all still good stuff. Good and smart. Looks like us.
ASHLEY HAMER: Just like us.
CODY GOUGH: And with that, we're done this week. I'm Cody Gough.
ASHLEY HAMER: I'm Ashley Hamer.
CODY GOUGH: Thanks for listening.
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SPEAKER 2: On the Westwood One Podcast Network.